Piotr Tolstoy: “Russia doesn’t care about Trump’s ultimatums.”

Piotr Tolstoy : « La Russie se contrefiche des ultimatums de Trump. »

No, he doesn't have horns or a forked tail, nor does he have a knife between his teeth. He doesn't eat Ukrainian children for breakfast either. The vice-president of the Russian Duma, Pyotr Tolstoy, seems like a perfectly normal man. Although not quite. On reflection, the great-great-grandson of Leo Tolstoy has a sense of irony and a frankness that are well above the average for ordinary people.

He was visiting Geneva with the high-level parliamentary delegation led by the Chairwoman of the Russian Federation Council, Valentina Matvienko, who was attending the World Summit of Speakers of Parliament. After an eight-hour journey that involved a number of detours. As Russian official aircraft are banned from flying in the European Union, it was necessary to fly via Turkey, Tunisia, and Algeria before heading up to Corsica and Provence to land in Geneva, thanks to a small gesture from the French.

So here we are on the terrace of La Treille, at the foot of the Tour Baudet, seat of the Geneva government, not far from the statue of Pictet de Rochemont, the diplomat who negotiated Geneva's accession to the Swiss Confederation and contributed to the recognition of Switzerland's neutrality in the Treaty of Vienna in 1815, thanks to his good relations with Tsar Alexander I. Geneva holds no secrets for Piotr Tolstoy, who knows the city well, having lived there for two years in 1992/93 and had his marriage blessed in the Russian cathedral by Archbishop Antony, who is highly revered in the Orthodox Church. On the menu were local dishes, foie gras and féra from the lake accompanied by local Sauvignon Blanc, and a lively discussion about the worrying state of the world.

Guy Mettan – Since we are in Geneva, let's start with Switzerland. Since 2014, and especially since 2022, the Swiss military hierarchy and secret services have been constantly stirring up the threat. . Hence my first question: should we be afraid of you?

Piotr Tolstoy – I would like to reassure you that Russia has no intention of invading Switzerland. In the past, the Swiss sent their children to Russia. They worked mainly in hotels. In Russian, we call hotel porters “schwitsars,” or “Swiss.” We have therefore always had good relations with Switzerland, and this would still be the case if it weren't for the unrest caused by the conflict in Ukraine and the media war waged against us.

That said, answering this question is rather tedious because public opinion has been heavily influenced and anti-Russian stereotypes have become difficult to eradicate. But when I am in Geneva, people sometimes recognize me on the street and come up to thank me for telling the truth. In my view, relations between people are more important than the opinions of leaders.

GM – The fact remains that Switzerland is considered an unfriendly country by Russia. What should it do to become a friendly country again?

It is not up to me to say what Switzerland should do. It is up to the Swiss people to decide. I can only say that if this is the case, it is because Switzerland has applied the unilateral and illegal sanctions imposed by the European Union. At one point, Switzerland believed it could act as a mediator and play a constructive role while applying these sanctions. But that is impossible. There is a contradiction between these two behaviors. Restoring good relations will take years, perhaps decades.

GM – Is there anything Switzerland could do to restore its neutrality and credibility as a mediator?

Switzerland is not a member of the European Union. It could make a first gesture of goodwill by lifting the sanctions against Russia. This would make it quicker to travel between Moscow and Geneva...

But it will be difficult because Europe and Switzerland have sided with Ukraine. That is their choice. But in my opinion, it was a mistake. A lack of analysis and understanding of what has happened over the last thirty years in Russia and around Russia, with the expansion of NATO and changes within the EU. Today, Europe has taken sides with what will remain of Ukraine. We will therefore have to wait until today's politicians disappear into the dustbin of history and a new generation comes to power in Europe before it can reestablish contact with Russia.

The problem with Europeans is that they persist in thinking that they are the center of the world. But if you look at a map of the world, you can see that Europe is just a small appendage at the end of the Eurasian continent and that the largest country in Europe is Russia, which is three times larger than the European Union. So we need to take a careful look at the map and think before we cry out about aggressors, sanctions, boycotts, breaking off all relations, and banning aircraft. In my opinion, these decisions were made on the spur of the moment, and now no one can back down. The Europeans have trapped themselves.

GM – And this seems to be continuing with the United States. The European Union has just bowed to Trump by accepting his 15% import taxes.

She has no choice. It's a high rate and it will have to be paid. In fact, Europe could be a global power enjoying full sovereignty if it were allied with Russia, which has natural resources. But Europe has chosen a different path and has become a satellite of the United States. Trump has no reason to change his position towards Ursula. He knows very well who is the boss and who is in charge.

GM - So you don't see much of a future for the EU as it stands today?

Today, the EU reminds me of the Soviet Union before it was dismantled in 1991. Member countries think of themselves first and put their own interests first. Look at Hungary, Slovakia, Spain, Italy, and even Germany. The Brussels bureaucracy is finding it increasingly difficult to coordinate these interests, especially if a serious political or economic crisis were to arise. It is not very stable.

The state of the European media is also reminiscent of the Soviet Union. Russian journalists salute you! Freedom of the press no longer exists in Europe. Russian journalists can hardly work in European countries anymore. They are banned everywhere, while Western journalists work very well in Moscow, as you can see and hear every day.

It is a paradox, but there is a growing sense that European unity is only held together by Russia: it is the fear of Russia, constantly invoked, that now seems to ensure Europe's cohesion. When we are told from morning to night that the Russians are eating Ukrainian children and are going to invade Poland and sweep across Europe in their tanks, we end up believing it. This is the result of propaganda and Russophobia in the Western media.

GM – Let's move on to Ukraine. Russia has set its conditions for a return to peace: cession of territories, neutralization, demilitarization, and denazification. Trump pretended to negotiate with Russia at the beginning of his term, and now he is issuing ultimatums. The next one is due soon. What do they think about this in Moscow?

Trump would have to make new decisions every ten days, which would greatly advance global diplomacy! But to answer your question: we don't care! We couldn't care less about Trump's ultimatums. Let's be serious: what does Russia sell to the US? Uranium. If they impose a 500% tax on our uranium, the US will either have to pay it or do without uranium. As for countries that buy Russian oil and gas, they are threatened with a 200% tax. But what will the US do about China, with whom it is in the process of concluding a tariff agreement? Will it tear it up? And if it attacks others, it risks provoking an economic crisis not only in Europe but throughout the world, including at home, because it is impossible to do without Russian oil overnight.

So all this is just theater, verbal rhetoric, and posturing, because in practice it will not be possible to boycott Russian oil and gas.

GM – So you are confident?

come from Trump, Ursula von der Leyen, or others. Even if 500% taxes were imposed on the purchase of our oil. This has not been our practice for centuries. We have never accepted ultimatums. And Putin is not someone who can be given ultimatums. I know that. We will stand our ground, but this will in no way change our policy or position on Ukraine.

GM – There is indeed a major problem of trust in international relations. We saw this with the assurances given to Gorbachev in 1991, the illegal bombing of Yugoslavia and Libya in 1999 and 2011, the Minsk agreements of 2015, and even the Istanbul talks in April 2022. Agreements and promises have been violated.

This is the problem with the changing world. International law no longer works. We have seen this in Gaza, Iran, Libya, Iraq, and pretty much everywhere else. The rules-based world proclaimed by the West is not ours. We want to live by our own rules, not those imposed by others, whether by the EU or the United States. It is clear that Russia will never accept this kind of rule. And this is all the more so because we have the means to refuse them, as we have the atomic bomb, the necessary resources, and good relations with the whole world except the West. As one of my colleagues pointed out, Russia was blockaded from the October Revolution until the end of World War II. We are used to it.

Today, it is rather the Russian army that is coming to the aid of the Ukrainian people. Europe has not yet understood that it has lost this war, that Ukraine is finished and that Russia is going to win.

GM – Perhaps. But won't it be necessary one day to rebuild relations of trust with Europe?

We have been well trained not to trust anyone. As Tsar Alexander III said, Russia has only two friends: its army and its navy. Unfortunately, that's the way it is. We lost any illusions we may still have had in the 1990s.

GM – But Russia will have to continue to rely on its allies, India and China for example.

If India and China ever decided to stop working with us, we would trade with other countries, such as Brazil, Indonesia, or South Africa. Or Korea. We have good relations with many countries. For example, we have good relations with both Koreas.

GM – Let's talk about the Russian economy. Here in the West, we keep hearing that the Russian economy, which has proven to be very resilient since 2022, has been in crisis since the beginning of this year. True or false?

Over the past three years, many companies have gone into mobilization mode. This is because Russia is not so much waging war against Ukraine as against the military machine of Europe, the United States, and NATO. We have therefore had to triple, or even increase tenfold, the production of weapons and equipment. This is what has driven growth in recent years. But otherwise, production and consumption levels, and the standard of living of Russians in general, have remained stable. We stopped importing European food products back in 2014. Today, there are 30,000 sanctions against Russian individuals and companies. I myself am subject to all kinds of sanctions. But if you come to Moscow today, you will see that there is no difference in lifestyle compared to three years ago.

As for oil sanctions, they don't work. Europe buys Russian gas or oil via India, paying more for it. But that's their problem. It doesn't affect us.

GM – Debt remains at a very low level compared to the United States and European countries. However, there is a problem with inflation and labor shortages.

The Central Bank's reserves remain stable. It continues to follow the IMF's recommendations and target inflation. This makes things difficult for business. But today we are moving forward with other economic projects. We are focusing on domestic rather than external growth. At the same time, we are continuing to develop cooperation with other countries, particularly Asia and the BRICS.

When it comes to economics, Western countries are making a serious mistake in thinking that a decline in Russians' standard of living would destabilize Putin's power. They are seriously mistaken. In our country, the opposite is true. When a war or an existential conflict threatens us, people mobilize. I know many ordinary people who are pooling their money to send aid to the front and help their compatriots who are fighting, rather than sending their children on vacation to Europe. There is a vast popular movement raising money. They send 200 or 500 rubles to help the fighters. This is a mobilization of ordinary people, not politicians or the upper classes. It's 80% of the population. I'm not talking about the 20% of people in the big cities who are unhappy and grumbling as they wait for the conflict to end.

GM – There seems to be a labor shortage, yet immigrants from Central Asia are being targeted.

Today, people from Central Asia tend to go to Germany to work. But we have many here at home. What we want is for them to work according to the rules and then return home. We want to avoid what is happening in Europe, where immigrants settle with their families more or less legally. The independent states of Central Asia have accepted this approach. They know they can no longer do as they did in the days of the USSR and settle freely in Russia while demanding political independence. In Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, more than a third of the budget is provided by diasporas working in Russia. This cannot continue.

And as I mentioned earlier, Russian entrepreneurs also employ workers from other countries, notably India and South Korea. We are open; we do not want to close ourselves off, but we want this to be a controlled process.

GM - Couldn't the sanctions nevertheless have a negative effect on the economy by closing the country to foreign competition and causing a decline in competitiveness and innovation, as was the case in the Soviet Union? Many European companies have left Russia, and those that have remained are also experiencing certain difficulties.

I don't think so. Those who stayed retained their market share. Those who left will not return because they lost their place. It's not that we don't want them, it's that their market share has been taken by others. There is no desire to exclude them. Let's remember that foreign investors are better protected than Russian investors and that their assets cannot be confiscated or nationalized. And this continues even though Europe stole the $300 billion we had deposited in your banks.

In this regard, Europeans should know that they will have to give us back everything, the money plus interest.

GM – Really? It will be difficult to get them to pay it back.

I am sure they will. They will have no choice, neither political, legal, nor military. What is unfortunate is that the politicians who caused the problem will no longer be there to take responsibility, and it will be up to their successors and the European people to foot the bill. Between US import taxes, overpriced gas and oil, and the repayment and interest on the Russian debt, it's going to be a lot...

When it comes to innovation, we have other partners, and in any case, we buy everything we want in Europe. Schemes involving cryptocurrencies and friendly countries work well. If we want to buy something in Switzerland, we can do so without any problems. But it costs us more, so we prefer to source the equivalent product in China or elsewhere.

GM - What about corruption? We know it's widespread in Ukraine, as Zelensky has just discovered to his cost by attacking the anti-corruption authorities. But it also exists in Russia and can hurt its economy.

It's a legacy of our Byzantine roots! It also exists in Turkey. Catholic and Protestant countries are different. But here, it's part of the mechanisms that make the economy and life work. But it's true that today it has become very frowned upon and many people are being caught and given very serious sentences, with seven or ten years in prison and the confiscation of their property. Today, you can no longer give money to a police officer in Russia. And those who want to try it at a higher level are putting themselves in danger.

GM – Last question: what is happening in the Caucasus? Why these sudden tensions with Azerbaijan?

There have been misunderstandings and miscommunications following the crash of an Azerbaijani plane that was supposed to land in the Russian Caucasus. This is also linked to tensions surrounding the Azerbaijani diaspora in Russia. But that's not the main issue. What's fundamental is that there is a Turkification of the Turkic-speaking republics of Central Asia.

The Azeris, Kazakhs, and Uzbeks are not on Russia's side in the war with Ukraine. Some are turning to Erdogan and becoming Islamists, which they have never been before. They are forced to maneuver between us, the British, the Americans, and the Turks. This could change their lives and their countries. But Russia will continue on its path./MPF/